Founders: Sam Means and Michael Rhee
Date Based: 2022
Location of Headquarters: Chicago,IL; New York, NY and Phoenix, AZ
Quantity of Bitcoin Held in Treasury: N/A
Variety of Staff: 3
Web site: https://wavlake.com/
Public or Personal? Personal
Sam Means is bringing the DIY spirit of punk rock to Bitcoin.
Means, co-founder of Wavlake, a music streaming platform that employs each Bitcoin’s Lightning Community and Nostr, has been innovating within the music business for the reason that early 2000s. From selling native reveals to serving to handle his personal band because it toured the world to operating a significant artist merchandise enterprise, Means has put within the work and discovered greater than a handful of classes alongside the best way.
Now, he’s taken these classes and mixed them with what he’s discovered from his ten years of expertise within the Bitcoin house to assist create Wavlake, a music streaming platform that cuts out the intermediary, permitting followers to stream sats to on to their favourite musicians. Wavlake is a counter to Spotify, well-known for hardly paying most of the artists featured on its platform.
In my interview with Means, we focus on his journey within the music business, how he discovered and discovered about Bitcoin, the method of making Wavlake and the way he balances his time between Wavlake and his different enterprise endeavors.
A transcript of our dialog, edited for size and readability, follows beneath.
Frank Corva: You’re the co-founder of Wavlake, the founding father of the Lightning Retailer, and I simply discovered you additionally personal a band merch firm. Is that this appropriate?
Sam Means: Yeah. So, I ought to in all probability cease calling it my most important enterprise, however my oldest enterprise is Howdy Merch. We do e-commerce, display screen printing for tour achievement, direct-to-customer achievement. It is like a one-stop store for merch if you happen to’re a band.
Corva: I’d like to listen to the way you steadiness all of that, however let’s begin with how you bought concerned with music.
Means: I’ve completed type of the whole lot. [It started] with punk bands. A few of these bands have been taking part in in Mesa, Arizona, and I used to be from the suburbs. I received a automotive, piled all my mates in it and we began going to $5 punk reveals in basements. That modified the whole lot for me.
I began working at a venue after which began a promotion firm with a pair mates. The entire time I used to be in bands. I used to be in three bands with this dude — we simply saved beginning bands till one in all them was profitable. We received signed to a significant label, received dropped, after which determined to do the whole lot ourselves.
We began our personal label, received distribution and labored with a extremely cool administration firm. We used all of the DIY stuff that we discovered at “punk college.” We constructed up a extremely good following. We have been touring continually.
All by way of that, I actually solidified all of the music enterprise stuff. I used to be at all times the accountable dude within the band that was coping with merch and getting paid.
Lengthy story brief, I wore lots of hats within the enterprise and ultimately began a merch firm. We had a pal who discovered find out how to display screen print. We arrange an e-commerce retailer in 2005, which was very tough to do. Shopify did not exist then.
Quick-forward to 2014, I would been listening to about Bitcoin from a pal of mine. He is nonetheless round. Shout out to Mike Jarmuz.
Corva: Mike Jarmuz from Lightning Ventures?
Means: Yeah. He is a pal of mine from center college and was a part of that entire story I simply advised. He began the label that put out my first band’s first document.
He additionally advised me about Bitcoin. He’d moved to New York, began a bar and was one of many first locations in New York to have a Bitcoin ATM.
By this level, I used to be utilizing Shopify for Howdy Merch, and I noticed that you might settle for Bitcoin with Shopify. I used to be like, “Alright, properly, I am nonetheless type of sketched out by this, but when some folks need to give it to me in change for band merch, I assume that is okay.”
In 2017, I heard concerning the Lightning Community. I arrange a few nodes — did not know what to do with them — and simply turned them on. I used to be identical to, “I am serving to” [laughter].
A few years later, I heard Paul from Sphinx on Marty Bent’s podcast. I began trying into it and noticed that you might add music to it. I used to be like, “What’s stopping me from making a Sphinx room and simply calling it just like the Lightning Music Room or one thing?”
So, I did that and uploaded all my music to. I took an RSS feed, put it into the podcast index and was like, “Hey everyone, look, you’ll be able to stream music over Lightning.”
Corva: Wow.
Means: Then, I began this factor known as the Lightning Retailer. It was simply an experiment. I mentioned, “I will simply put out a bunch of bootleg music shirts, like West coast punk mashups on T-shirts with delicate Bitcoin issues and discover all of the tremendous large music nerds in Bitcoin if there are any.”
“In the event that they know who the Descendants and Black Flag are they usually’re into Bitcoin, there could be an opportunity they may a minimum of like — trigger I am not a technical particular person — stroll me by way of what must technically occur with a view to make this really occur as an alternative of simply fumbling.”
Corva: That feels like a enjoyable solution to go fishing for assist.
Means: It was completely fishing. Folks have been actually like, “What is that this? What are these shirts? We will not even purchase them as a result of you don’t have any liquidity in your node.” I had folks from Lightning Labs DMing me being like, “Hey, dude, like these things appears to be like tremendous cool, however nobody should buy it as a result of you have no liquidity.” I used to be like, “What’s that?” It was actually enjoyable. I did that within the very starting of ‘21.
Then, I began going to extra conferences and connecting folks with people who have been constructing issues adjoining to what I used to be attempting to see occur.
After which this dude Michael Rhee from Chicago constructed this factor known as Wavlake. It wasn’t precisely what I hoped to see, nevertheless it was one thing. It was like, “Okay, this man made a factor the place you’ll be able to join it to your node and you’ll add music and receives a commission with out having to add it by way of Anchor or one thing. It [wasn’t live] but, although.
So, I helped him check it earlier than he launched it. I used to be additionally serving to with Lightning Ventures at that time. I received Michael on a name with [the team at Lightning Ventures] to see how we may assist him.
It was simply too technical, although. It was a cool thought, nevertheless it simply wasn’t precisely catching on for quite a few causes. After that, I type of misplaced contact slightly bit.
Then, I ran into him at a Bitcoin convention in 2022. He was like, “Hey, I am gonna need to get a job. Solely 27 folks have signed up for [Wavlake].”
I used to be like, “Okay, do not cease as a result of such as you’re on the fitting path. Anyone wants to do that.” Then, I had this concept. I known as him and mentioned, “I believe it is advisable to change all the factor. Would you need to possibly simply begin over and launch a [new] product?
Corva: When was this?
Means: October of ‘22. We reorganized the entire enterprise and began over. In January of ‘23, we relaunched with a very totally different product and model.
By that summer season, we had met Ainsley Costello. She grew to become the primary Wavlake famous person. She’s received a brand new track out as we speak known as “Folks Pleaser,” and other people ought to test it out.
Then, Nostr got here alongside virtually instantly after we launched. We’d had this long-term imaginative and prescient of how we may make this a social factor down the highway, however there aren’t lots of social layers on RSS. Nostr was primarily only a second solution to distribute these information. We have been like, “Hey, we will publish on RSS after which publish to relays.”
Corva: Is Wavlake a Nostr consumer?
Means: One among our merchandise for artists is known as Wavlake Studio. That is the place you add your music. Once you add your music, it distributes to RSS.
We robotically push that to the podcast index and any consumer that is studying that index and has a monetization functionality may have the power to tug that track into their library. It’s tagged music.
Something pulling within the music tag goes to see that library after which we concurrently push it. We created a Wavlake relay that we push it out to.
So, each track will get printed as a Nostr word, however pushes off of RSS. It simply occurs on a web site and will get pushed to those channels. So, simply consider them as distribution channels.
Once we began significantly fascinated with Nostr, we determined, “Nicely, there’s a few issues right here we will do. One, we will enable folks to log in with Nostr on Wavlake. So, if you happen to simply need to be a listener and you do not need to create an account, you’ll be able to simply log in along with your Nostr account and work together.”
Then, we began considering, “Okay, properly, if we’re going to make the most of Nostr for lots of social parts, most of these are going to occur in a cell app. So, we [built] a factor known as Wavman, which was our Nostr participant proof of idea.
Our cell app for iOS and Android continues to be in beta. That’s an absolute Nostr consumer. Once you join, you are given a personal key and a public key, or you’ll be able to simply log in and work together.
Corva: It sounds prefer it was a reasonably natural course of.
Means: Wavlake began as a conceptual factor to see if music may work on Lightning. I needed to see it occur as a result of the potential is so robust for this factor to fully change the infrastructure that we exist in as we speak as musicians.
In my expertise, you must begin someplace. If you wish to be in a band, you’ll be able to’t simply be like, “It is enjoyable — we performed three reveals after which broke up after which I received a job.” You need to simply hold pushing by way of.
I assumed it was a good suggestion. It simply wanted some work. We are going to simply hold doing it till it really works. Or a minimum of till someone else with much more cash comes alongside and takes the concept and makes it work.
On the very least, we may be like a spark for an even bigger thought. Perhaps TIDAL comes alongside and allows this.
My final purpose is simply to see this alteration the music business. I do not care who does it. If we play a small half in that, that is unbelievable.
Corva: As an example you proceed to iterate and Bitcoin turns into extra normalized. How lengthy would it not take for Wavlake to switch one thing like Spotify?
Means: Now we have good Bitcoin service suppliers. Now we have wallets. Now we have all the basic stuff in place and dealing.
Now we have the cash that is so robust and being talked about within the mainstream media each single day. There is a ticker for it on TV.
It is time to herald the mainstream. It is time to herald the normies. Let’s get them right here. And we’re not going to try this with boring…
Corva: Lectures in Austrian economics?
Means: Yeah, and like, and like steak dinners and stuff. We will convey them in with music and leisure and social media.
Bitcoin is for everybody, and we have to construct the stuff for everybody to make use of it. I believe that we’ve an excellent likelihood at serving to rather a lot as a result of proper now we’re one of many most important methods for music to waltz into each Bitcoin and Nostr.
Corva: Completely. However when you’re attempting to do that, how do you steadiness your time between Wavlake, Lightning Retailer and Howdy Merch?
Means: With Lightning Retailer, I’ve a achievement middle, however I nonetheless pack all my very own Lightning Retailer orders. I nonetheless wish to put free stickers [in the shipments]. It’s only a factor I do for enjoyable. Even when it will get type of loopy, like when Jack wears the Satoshi shirt on the Tremendous Bowl subsequent to Beyoncé and Jay-Z and issues get busy, it stresses me out, however I nonetheless will pack each single a kind of orders.
With the merch stuff, I’ve a extremely good staff in Arizona that helps hold that factor going. It would not require a ton of day-to-day work.
And we’re nonetheless so small with Wavlake.
It is robust to steadiness stuff, however I’ve at all times had lots of issues occurring. I perform higher when I’ve extra issues taking place. I am going to solely work with issues that I believe can in the end work collectively.
So, these are lots of various things, however they’re all in the identical world. It is like, I make music, I promote merch. I promote merch for bitcoin. I am a Bitcoin particular person. I’ve a music firm that is in Bitcoin and likewise has merch. All this stuff join.
Corva: How a lot do among the greater artists on Wavlake make?
Means: One of the best metric right here is that almost all artists who’re energetic on Wavlake are averaging about 12 cents a zap.
It isn’t concerning the complete quantity that they’ve made. Ainsley Costello has been on lots of podcasts saying she made $1,500 in her first couple of months, and he or she had solely made possibly $600 in her entire lifetime as a musician. She’s 19 or 20 now and has been doing this since she was a child and has solely seen $600 or $700.
It is extra about hope. Individuals who actually get it are getting it as a result of lots of these different issues like these shitcoins and NFTs which might be about being profitable actually quick — everybody’s sick of that. Artists are searching for sustainability.
Simply took Man Like Kweks. He is been very vocal about how he is like paying his utility payments with what he’s making on Wavlake.
We additionally simply did an interview with this actually nice poet OKIN who’s in a bunch known as…
Corva: Black Vulcanite?
Means: Yeah, Black Vulcanite. He made [the equivalent of] 500 Namibian {dollars} [from boosts and zaps on Wavlake] final month. That is about $80 US {dollars}.
So, yeah, there’s hope. All of this stuff are on the market that truly have an opportunity to assist folks in a sustainable manner. It should convey bands nearer to their followers, which I do know, based mostly on my expertise, is crucial factor.
Corva: You may be working with Bitcoin Journal on a vinyl launch. Are you able to inform me slightly bit about this?
Means: Yeah, we did a extremely cool contest the place current Wavlake artists or new artists may simply add music to Wavlake and the 21 songs that earned probably the most sats would go to the following stage. 11 artists out of these artists who made these 21 songs ended up on the document.
Man Like Kweks, Ainsley Costello and Joe Martin will likely be on there. It should be accessible on the Bitcoin convention. We’re additionally doing a live performance there on July 25, business night time, with Ainsley Costello, Joe Martin and JUSTLOUD, who’s been burned by the business and is hopeful with what’s taking place on this [Wavlake] world.
Corva: Superior. That feels like lots of enjoyable.
Means: It has been cool to search out the Bitcoiners, and we’re blissful for all of the assist on this neighborhood. We’re simply going to maintain doing our factor.